Anapanasati at top of Wat Tum Sua and 5? kids taking my pictures and banging the bells to see if they could get me to move and break the meditation…

Mai pen rai krup… (no matter, no mind)

Today was an interesting test of my meditation practice. I climbed up the stairs again to the top of the mountain at Wat Tum Sua and after the sweat dried up from my body and clothes and my breathing calmed quite a bit I sat in my usual spot at the altar that has some shade and the most wind blowing (usually).  The first 10 minutes were almost silent as people came and went and were quiet for the most part. I could hear talking, but it didn’t bother me at all. I was able to find peace and stillness of body rather quickly and the mind followed… and then…

5 or so Thai kids arrived with their father. I could hear them around me and they were talking about getting me to move… I was in a good state of concentration at the moment and so I just watched with my mind – with attention at what they said and let it go as I heard each word or phrase. They were intent on getting me to react and break the meditation. They took pictures very close to me (of me) and banged on the bells that were at another platform close by to see if they could get me to react or jump or something. It was amusing and yet I couldn’t help some thoughts from surfacing about the impoliteness of Thais when it comes to others.  There really is very little.

Going to this wat in the south of Thailand over the past couple weeks and months I noticed that there is little in the way of outward shows of respect not only among all Thais’ but also for the monks at this wat. It is as if they are laypeople. The Thais that interact with them don’t worry about having their head higher than the monks, following a step behind… using polite language with krup and ka… they don’t dip their heads when they pass them or go between monks. They don’t wai anyone and very rarely do I see any Thais’ interacting with the monks at all except to treat them as friends like they met in a bar.

This is in marked contrast with the respect shown to monks by Thais in the Northeast province of Ubon Ratchathani, Udonthani, Sisaket and others.  There is a reverence… a respect that they don’t give to others that they accord to monks that is nice to see…

At least a little basic respect of someone’s space, privacy, meditative moments would have been appreciated…  but, no matter since the mind reacted very little to the antics of these kids that were at times within reaching distance sticking their Nokia cell phone cameras close to me to get a good photo of the foreign monk (they called me) meditating at the top of the mountain.  The father of some of the kids joked with them, smoked and egged them on to do some of the things they were doing to attempt to disturb me… it was kind of weird that not only was there an utter disregard for my sitting there in an unobtrusive and out of the way part of the altar, but there were unabashed attempts at provoking me to see if they could get me to stop meditating. This went on for over 30 minutes I’m guessing.

So, such was my sitting today…  after they had gone and I stayed another 15 minutes.

When I opened my eyes I had a bit of Jhana there – the feeling of lightness of being… of no feeling in the hands, arms and legs… the good feeling inside… bliss or some good feeling…

I noticed a young monk climbing the rocks below coming back toward the platform. Apparently he had been somewhere. I asked where (“Bpy Ny?”). He said, “anapanasati, tee non” (meditating over there) and pointed toward the rocks. I said, “Jing law?” (really) He said “chai” (yes…)  I said, “Ow bpy dooay. Die mai kup?” ( I want to go too, can i?).

I went and got my sport sandals and came back, he led me over the treacherous rocks in his bare feet and showed me this ‘secret’ meditation spot that he found a while back. He had been at the wat for a year and also liked to practice anapanasati. This was the spot he liked to go.  It was a small spot of mildly sloping rock that was in an incredibly beautiful, secluded setting, nestled among the jagged limestone cliffs that comprised the top of the mountain. It was some effort getting across the rocks even with shoes, but I made it in a bit over 5 minutes I think.  I took a little video of the experience and it’s posted below. Enjoy…

Oh, tomorrow if we both make it, we’re supposed to meet at 2pm for a trip up a mountain next to the one we were at today. Supposedly it’s a good place for meditation and there are no other visitors there, just monks.  I’m excited to see if we might be able to coordinate that trip tomorrow at 2pm. If so, I’ll post video and photos.

Ok – video of top of wat tum sua secret meditation spot 14.7Mb in size >

I haven’t read many accounts of jhana and how the Buddhists view jhana. What I’ve read up until today seemed to be telling me that jhana was necessary in order to reach enlightenment. While glancing through Buddhadassa Bhikku’s book, “Handbook for Mankind” I learned otherwise. It says explicitly that insight is necessary in order to reach liberation… Insight can be had two ways:

1.) Meditation and jhana states. or,
2.) The natural method of introspection which is what most people use since jhanas seem rather elusive to most people.

For me – jhana came rather easily… not without effort, but within a couple months I was experiencing jhana 1-4 rather often.  A couple months after that I had spent time in all the jhanas.  I knew little of Buddhism and didn’t care to know much about it. I was experimenting with my meditation. I wanted to take the bare minimum physical activities: mindfulness and meditation on the breath and see where it led.  Where it led was in a track that mirrors the levels of jhana that I read today in Bhante Vimalaramsi’s Dhamma talk in 2006 in Joshua Tree, California.

To say I’m surprised is an understatement. My meditation was an experiment really. I wanted to take as little of the religion of Buddhism into my meditation and mindfulness experiment. I wanted to do what the Buddha was said to have done. I wanted to see if religionless meditation and enlightenment was possible.  I was pretty clueless when jhana started coming. I hadn’t read of anyone’s jhana experiences and so I had nothing to compare to. I had asked Theravadin monks in Florida where I lived what they could tell me about these experiences – were they normal or was I losing it?  I didn’t get an answer. They were completely unfamiliar with the states of jhana. Living in Thailand for 3 years now and seeing very few monks practicing meditation at the maybe hundreds of temples I’ve visited, I understand that Thai monks don’t really use meditation much as a tool.

So – as I sat and focused on the breath I started reaching these jhana states… I’ll provide video or audio here shortly – describing the states as best I can. They defy words really, but I’ll give it my best. You won’t have a 5% understanding of what the state was really like, but at least you’ll see 5%!  They are so hard to put into words – impossible really.

In 2004 I went to see the Australian abbot at Wat Pah Nanachat in Warin Chamrap, in the northeast (Isaan or e-sarn) region of Thailand to see what he thought. As I talked to him and he asked me many qualifying questions… he said that it sounded like I was experiencing what all the monks at Wat Pah were trying to reach… levels of jhana…

He gave me a couple pamphlets and invited me to stay at the wat for as long as i wished – but the desire wasn’t there and I left the next morning.  As I read the pamphlets, wow, yes, it seemed that I’d had all of the jhana states as Buddhists believe them to exist.

Today as I read through the vivid description of jhanas by Bhante Vimalaramsi I couldn’t believe that FINALLY I was reading a very similar account of my own jhana experiences. It was really cool to see it after so many years – and knowing, “wow, someone else believes this is how it happens”.  Not only did the levels correspond very well to what happened to me, but some other things he said were RIGHT ON and what I believed from the start about meditation.

One of the things he said was that in order to progress in meditation and in jhana is to just note every experience and let it go. Everything must be let go. There’s nothing else to do during the states except watch, note, and let them go like every other piece of mind-candy that appears.  Other Buddhists seem to teach that certain ideas need to be focused on while in jhana.  I don’t think so – because I didn’t, and it appears that I’ve seen all of the 8 jhanas… It was just nice to see someone else collaborate my belief. Better still that he’s a well-respected Buddhist monk.

Well, I could write about this all night. I’m sure I’ll get some audio up here and comment directly on the statements he made and make my own comments sometime.

Reaction, ego, emotionality all return with a vengeance!  It seems that the last 5 days were filled with the mind being on edge. Most times were calm, yet, when a difficulty presented itself the mind reacted fast and very negatively. I think I’ve sworn more in the past couple days than during all my time in Thailand combined.

I have this idea that the mind noticed that it was slipping away… the ego was dissolving. Disenchantment with things was starting to take place again (1st time: 1999).

The mind revolted – it didn’t want to go away again. Meditation sessions were filled with a noisy and chatty mind – untamable most times – or only for minutes at a time. I could not just stop the thoughts like I used to – and have a mind that was without thought and reactions…  Very strange. Anyway, see the video if you want, there’s more to it than that.

Reaction, ego, emotionality video 9-7-07 >

I was at Wat Tum Sua again today (Buddhist temple in southern Thailand). The weather was nice, cool and windy. No rain. There were very few people at the top. When I first got to the top and took off my shoes to go up onto the platform, there was a young monk sitting in some shade in the corner. I recognized him as one I’d seen at the top before. He was meditating. I have honestly not seen even 1 monk meditating in Thailand at a wat before except at Wat Pah Nanachat and Suan Mokkh.

I looked out at the mountains and he came over to me and offered me a soy milk box which I took with thanks. I spoke to him in Thai and he was extremely shy to speak, but wanted to speak it seemed. He was from Suratthani area and had been at the Wat Thamsuea for about a year. He was 21 years old.

Anyway, so I went to sit and meditate and found a place on the ground. I sat for maybe an hour and had varying degrees of concentration and mindlessness (vernlessness) as there was no vern to watch the breath. I had to focus on the breath to bring a vern back into the picture.  Odd to read this, I know, but, that is the experience. There is nothing there to watch the breath… no “me” so to speak. If I wasn’t trying to force something to be there to watch the breath – there is just nothingness. I am aware of things around… the air, the sounds, etc. If I open my eyes – I can see without a problem… and yet, still – there is no center point for where “i” am. It’s like no “me”.

Anyway, the video might explain better… I filmed as I walked down the steps, showing me at first – then showing the steps.

Walking down steps at Wat Thamsuea video > (.wmv about 4MB)

Update 6-15-09:

Still much the same. If I sit to meditate the mind is quiet already. There’s no sense following the breath because the mind is still. The body relaxes easily… now what is the point of meditation when I have this level of peace from the start?

I’d rather not ask Buddhists or consult books as I like to see how things play out on their own… probably the jhanas wouldn’t have come at all if I’d gone looking. Better just to see what happens…

I meditated at the top of the temple again today and it was just so relaxing… the weather was great, cloudy and a cool wind blowing. I sat for 30 minutes or so… and at times there were periods of no thought, no mind… no body really. Nothing. No memory, thought, nothing… but that experience was sprinkled with a realization of the body returning sometimes. The eyes were mostly closed, but at times they opened. So I stood up and walked around the structure, looking at the mountains on one side and the plains on the other… I became aware of a feeling that the eyes should focus on one spot – opened, and concentrate all focus there. This was not a conscious feeling, nor a voice. I’ve experienced something like this before, yet this was different. The video might explain better.  While focusing on one spot on the side of the mountain I had an experience unlike any before…

I’ve had 2 dimensional experiences before but this one was different in it’s scale.

3 dimensions change to 2 dimensions video

Update: I forgot to continue the experience after I put the video link above. I have attention deficit disorder and sometimes that happens. Ok, here is the rest of what happened…

I focused on a point on the side of a mountain – a  limestone karst here in Krabi, Thailand that was just a random spot on the mountain where my eyes naturally went directly in front of me and lower than I was vertically. There was no thought in the mind. The scene in front of me began to change. There was some strangeness going on with the visual aspect of the mountain. Incredibly, though at the time my mind was not moved by it – just watched, the entire scene in front me – my whole field of vision turned from 3 dimensions to 2 dimensions. It started with the mountain which quickly turned into a 2-D image. I looked around at everything within my field of view – it was all the same, just 2-dimensions. I continued to look at the scene. It was if my field of view was now a painting. Nothing was moving – the trees were too far away to see move if they were. There was nothing in front of me because I was standing on a Buddhist altar type structure at the far north side. There was nothing but some sharp rocks below me, beyond that a huge valley, and the mountain in front of me.

So as I watched the scene the mountain began to get lines running through it. I realized the mountain was turning into a jigsaw puzzle. It made pieces of a puzzle that could all be fit together and form the scene. I continued to watch.

The pieces of the puzzle started shaking – I could see white behind the pieces as they shook hard like they were going to fall down into a big heap. What was beyond the 2-D scene – ? What was the white area? It was strange and I cut the scene off before it could go further. It’s funny to say it, but on this day I had kind of had enough of these experiences. I’d already decided that enlightenment wasn’t a worthwhile goal. It wasn’t something to be sought after. If it was going to happen right now at this moment, I didn’t care. But I didn’t let it happen either. So, I guess I cared enough to stop it?

I stopped it by turning around and the scene though at first two dimensional turned back to 3-D and I was without thought for a time.

That was about it… I walked back down the steps in silence, went to eat my usual fried rice at my usual restaurant, and went about the rest of my night…

8-31-07 Comments on the process from yesterday.  I added a lot more here that I forgot to say during yesterday’s video. I don’t think I described the physical feeling very well yesterday, at least I wasn’t satisfied that I did. I went over more of what it felt like and what was going on during it.

This state lasted all the way up until I went to sleep about 9:30 pm. That was about 6 hours. I’m not sure that even when I meditated in 1998 and had a similar state that it lasted this strongly and long. Very interesting state… no thought… no emotion… no desire… no satisfaction or attachment to anything – so no dissatisfaction…  Yet, I was able to have conversation at dinner with my friend. Memory still worked and was used in place of reaction and emotions. I remembered how I reacted emotionally to certain things – but there was no emotional reaction at all. Much more in the video.

comments on the state video

Over 6 hours of no thought… no reaction. No emotion. No extra work being done by the mind. A state of high awareness and being precisely in the moment – but without naming things – without judging… without using much of the mind that used to be automatic.

Filmed at top of Wat Tum Sua mountain top temple before the thoughtless state occurred (next entry).  Wat tum sua scenery and some comments on meditation This is a small sized video display because it’s 12 minutes long and if it was a bigger size it would be a 47 MB download which most people wouldn’t bother with because too large. I think. If you want a larger one where you can SEE the scenery, ask me and I’ll whip it up. I saved the project it would just take another 15 minutes to convert it and get it together. It would take me about 4 hours to upload it with a good internet connection so it won’t be a quick process – but could do it at some point.

Climbed up to Wat Tum Sua and attempted to sit. It didn’t go well the first time so I just shot some video and photos for a while. There was a storm and from that vantage it was interesting to see different spots around the area getting rained on, others dry and sunny. There was no lightening – so my fears of a repeat of the lightening experience up there were few (see www.aimforawesome.com for my lightening experience article).  I went down a level and sat in a dry spot on a piece of concrete about 12 inches high at the base of a pillar. It was comfortable. The body was very relaxed and at peace. Soon the mind followed.

I then had a very strong experience of the state that lasted about an hour there. Instead of attach to it and sit there for hours after about an hour I opened my eyes and stood up and felt the state in that new posture… the state stayed for many hours – I was conscious of every one of the 1,237 steps down the mountain and during the motorbike ride home… more about it on the video.

- the thoughtless state video

Update: 6-15-09

It was probably this event that triggered something. After this happened I wasn’t quite the same. I was still having thoughts – though they were less frequent. The mind seemed to find peace – equanimity and non-dualistic experience easily and without effort. There were many periods over the next 1 year when I noticed that the mind was quiet and without thought.

Now – june 15,09 I’ve been in a weird thoughtless state for a number of months.

In this video I went over what I’ve been doing over the past few days with meditation. I’ve been experimenting trying to purposefully meditate in places that were noisy to see – is it still possible to do so.

I started this because I noticed that sometimes recently when I was in a loud environment it wasn’t affecting my concentration or mind – thoughts – at all. The mind was able to calm and quiet very quickly and wasn’t affected if noises started…

last couple days video

Fatness and no mind center…  I climbed up to the Buddhist shrine at the top of the hill at Wat Tum Sua here in Krabi yesterday and I sat around 5:30pm. There were a group of monks and a woman in white- like a nun that helps out at the temple. Thais say, “magee”. The group was quite talkative and was in the one spot that I thought I had the least chance of tourists coming by and so after 20 minutes of looking at the incredible view I just sat down right there to meditate. The monk group stayed and talked for a while and left after 20-30 minutes.

As they were still there my mind was able to get very calm, and the body was near totally relaxed. Breathing came easily and when they did leave the “fatness” feeling came VERY strongly for about 30 minutes. I then had the mind’s point of reference shift -or disappear so that I could not tell where the “i” was – or where “me” was… so to speak. I let that go on for a bit and then I opened my eyes… and, well, it’s all in the video. I recorded this video at some caves in Krabi that I was scouting for meditation places. I think they’ll do fine. I’ll sit there in some days ahead. Need bug spray first, the mosquitos are ravenous.

Watch the video – you’ll see the cave, some scenery, and some people riding an elephant at the trekking place next to the cave.

Fatness Video (.wmv) about 4MB

Note – I call the fatness feeling – the feeling where the body feels as if it’s growing outwardly in all directions. At times the mind feels the same – to be expanding and growing to fill the room, the cosmos…  The fatness feeling happens when the body has gone completely numb. I feel it in my head or my hands or chest first… I describe it better in the video.

A feeling of no mind came today.

I sat for 30 minutes last night before I slept. Before I meditated I was in a state of ‘no mind’ or no thoughts before sitting down for some time – an hour or so. I decided to sit and just have no thoughts. I didn’t record a video… nothing to talk about. I just sat and had no thoughts. I had awareness of things going on around me. At times some thoughts started to germinate, but when I realized a thought was forming I switched back to no thought mode.

I’ve had this ability for some time now since meditating back in 1998 – i can just switch thoughts off and focus on the present for a few seconds or a few minutes. I’ve not done it longer than 20 minutes, but i’ve not tried to go longer.

Update: 6/15/09 – I’m in a continued state of no mind or… rather no thought for the last few months now.. 6? 8? Not counting – would need to go back and look at journal. I can do things – I can work on computer and talk to people, exercise, etc… but, when I stop the mind goes blank. You know how if you stop doing something your mind is still running and thinking thoughts? Mine isn’t. A strange state – is this what it will be forever?